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Aussie Underarm Serve Thwarts New Zealand Medal Hopes!
Posted by devo on July 2, 2009
The New Zealand Junior Men’s Volleyball (U19, U18 and U17) teams depart New Zealand today for the Australian State Champs in Beenleigh, Brisbane with the knowledge that the best they can be is 5th!
Volleyball New Zealand received first knowledge of amendments made to the Tournament Regulations excluding international teams from the medal matches from Volleyball Australia (AVF) on June 23. After rigorous debate with AVF, the decision by the AVF Board to endorse the amended rule was confirmed in an email to VNZ on 25 June stating … “this means that international teams will play in the first round of pool play, will be eligible to move into the Championship Pool based on results, but will not be eligible to play in the medal matches”.
With an investment of over $80k to attend the State Championship event, the New Zealand teams were left short on time to reconsider their participation.
Read the full article at voxy.co.nz ~ UPDATE: And vote in the poll in the left side column.
UPDATE 2: See also Today
Volleyball Athlete said
Wow. I understand where the AVF is coming from, but I think last year worked fine. Where the U/17 New Zealand team could play the medal match, however they just could not recieve there medal. To not allow them to play at all seems a bit of a waste of time.
Jase said
I agree with Volleyball Athlete,
I remember a number of medal finals over my years of playing Junior Nationals where NZ teams played against one of the Aus states. Even though the Aus state team were guarenteed whatever medal they were playing off for, there was plenty of TransTasman rivalry, and the crowds got into those games more than when two aus states were playing off.
If it was my team going over to NZ for experience and we were good enough to play the Grand Final team but were playing off against the 5th or 6th best team there, I would probably feel pretty disappointed.
Steve said
poor work AVF, way to create a disincentive for international teams ot come in future years.
Kris said
What a disappointment for NZV or any other international team that may want to play! And what up with Aus volleyball? If we’re good enough to beat them and get to the finals then great! If not then we have to work harder and good luck to them. For years we have thought of NZ as another Australian State but we are just like children in the school yard…its my ball and I will decide who will play.
Morbo said
As the coach of a team directly knocked out of the championship pool by NZ last year, I feel I can safely comment on this.
I feel it is very sad that this is the direction that was taken. I really do think that we should have just made it that NZ teams CAN win medals. If they keep AUS teams out, then so be it, AUS teams need to get better! The biggest problem last year was that we weren’t good enough to beat NZ, not that NZ were in the comp, or took our spot. They did, and still do, deserve their spot.
What you basically do now, is make this the last time NZ comes to the championships (I could be wrong) but the guarantee of playing NSW 2, VIC 3, WA 2, ACT and TAS in the second stage of the tournament is NOT what I’d be flying across the Tasman to do.
A decision DID have to be made though…Because it ISN’T right that teams are being knocked out of medal matches by teams who can’t win a medal. It degrades the professionalism of the event I think. But it’s even LESS right to just hang them out to dry for the second half of the tournament.
Oh. And while I’m at it, let them do the haka at matches. While the teams are warming up, they should be able to use the time when their opposition are doing their hitting to do the haka. How amazing would a big hitting warm up be with a haka in the background?!?!
I also think, if we’re honest, most State organizations would have asked for this measure at one point in time.
ACT lover said
“guarantee of playing, nsw 2, vic 3, wa 2,” and What??? ACT? You had better get your facts right boi, cos ACT is gonna come away with the gold this year.
Morbo mate i hope i go up against your team, cos if you count us out before even having seen us play, then your in for a rude awakening.
Cope it C-bomb!
Realistic said
Isn’t winning gold a fair jump from 10th/11th in 2008?
Steve said
“I also think, if we’re honest, most State organizations would have asked for this measure at one point in time.”
The haka do you mean?!?!?
Morbo said
Hahah…No my bad.
Got excited with the Haka bit!
I mean most state organisations would have voiced their complaint at being knocked out of the champs by NZ teams, and so would have asked for them to be excluded from the Championship pool at some point.
Steve said
:)
Batesy said
Hell yeah, I remember playing against a NZ team in a semi-final at Schools Cup where they did the haka just before we took the court.
It was unbelievable! Got everyone pumped up for what turned out to be an epic match.
Robbo said
I was there when they did the Haka just after their last match last year, and yes it was a great spectacle, with the floor shaking. I got some great photos of it, and you could see that all the young boys got right into it. It was also great to see their opposition showing respect for it, and the captians came in to shake hands afterwards.
It drew a pretty good crowd too.
Sam said
love the pun in the title!
Alan said
Sometimes I read the feedback from my fellow Volleyball peers on “cutting the AVF some slack” and rather than being negative I should place my thought processes in a position that would be of assistance to them and potentially,in turn the sport.Then I read the decisions that they make with no consultation to the broader Volleyball community and with, what would seem to be no common sense at all and I simply shake my head in disbelief.
Making such a poor decision is one thing, giving our friends across the Tasman 2 weeks notice is wiping their noses in it! This forum is a perfect place for the AVF to get a sense of what the wider volleyball community is feeling.I am sure that Mr Devo would have set up a Poll and written an Article to get a “vibe” on this issue months ago,if the AVF requested it.If they dont want to set up such a forum themselves then use this as a way of “putting your toe in the water before you jump right in”!
I hate to say it but this decision is Un Australian.
After all we are not playing for Sheep Stations!!
Morbo said
Lol @ sheep stations!
Jase said
we are seeing a number of sports allowing New Zealand teams to enter “Australia” national champsionships or leagues, eg. Rugby and Netball. Is this perhaps the way National Juniors should move? Could it become the Oceanic Junior Championships or something along those lines and let teams from New Zealand enter as full participants? Maybe let New Zealand enter as South and North islands if the full national team is too strong for the competition?
What does everyone think?
I would hate for NZ to stop coming to National Juniors, as I said above their teams certainly made my last few years of National Juniors more enjoyable. I was lucky enough to represent the junior aus team against NZ in a series in NZ, but junior nationals may be the only opportunity for some athletes to play an international team. It would be a shame if this opportunity was lost due to regulations.
Anon said
Sounds like a pretty good idea, particularly the North and South Islands part. With an expanded number of entrants (ie. NZ Nth & Sth, maybe Samoa/Tonga/Fiji/The like) you could spit the draw into two divisons. The only issue I guess would be finding a venue suitable, I guess that’s why National schools cup is held in melbourne every year.
Robbo said
I flew back from NZ yesterday and noticed a rugby team and another girls team (i couldn’t see what sport they were involved in) catching a flight to the Gold Coast. Are there other Junior tournaments on at the moment too?
Rusty said
Absolutely – i was thinking this same thought – Oceanic Championships. Because really the Australian Championships should be for Australian teams.
Morbo said
I don’t think the AVF really has to listen to the ‘broader volleyball community’ on this one. Realistically, it is up to the participants of the AJVC. A forum where this SHOULD (it might have, I don’t know) have been tabled, was at a coaches/admins meeting at the end of last years championships.
I agree with Jase on the matter, North/South Islands be allowed to compete, winner takes gold, if you aren’t good enough, pick up your britches and train harder.
Alan said
On the contrary Morbo, in the 6 hours since the original Article was posted a small cross section of the ‘broader volleyball community’ has come up with some excellent options that would have assisted and perhaps influenced the AVF with their decision making.Surely with the amount of negative press they are getting,particularly recently,they would and should welcome any input from the ‘broader volleyball community’!
Morbo said
Agree with some of that Alan.
But, it doesn’t really matter if WE are all outraged, if all the teams concerned are happy (I’m sure they are not), then so be it. My post is actually saying that the people concerned should have been the first port of call, and they should all either be happy, or accepting of the new ventures.
What we think, while it is obviously and extremely valuable, doesn’t actually matter if the proper forum process is followed in the first instance.
As you said, the wider volleyball community has some good ideas that might have shaped the direction.
Perhaps the question should have been posed to the coaches/admins of the associated parties at the last AJVC, and it is then their responsibility to gain insight from their communities (through these forums, or their own), before reconvening to make a decision as a group of informed members.
Paterico said
Personally, I would feel set up and used given such late notice.
Louise said
Agree absolutely!
The least we parents and all particpants can now do is give our verbal support to the NZ teams and coaches.
At least they can go back knowing that we all view them as important and valued partipants of the event, and they can enjoy supportive Aussie hospitality!
I, for, one will be personally telling the coaches how much we appreciate them coming!
Kris said
My understanding is that the participants, that is the states, were consulted on this…last year and this year!
For the players and the coaches this may be another matter, that is they do want to play a game that really has some meaning for both teams.
Can you imagine how the kids from NZ must feel?
They can’t feel like they’re really part of the whole tournament… they must be thinking or feeling like they are just another team to make up the numbers.
For them, other than wearing their countries colours, where will they draw on that competitive spirit that will deliver for them a prize.
Now, their main goal may be just to kick our teams butts and show us all up…and that may be out of spite.
I believe that they will just enjoy being over here in Oz but really it will now be like a training tour.
Eldo said
There are points for and against.
I know some USA teams who want to play in the Junior Nationals next year befor they come to Heathfield to play. They do not have a problem not playing in the medal round as they are “used to it”.
The only teams that want to play NSW 3 is Vic 3 and ACT 3.
Give them their own division.
Why can’t we have a competition where the best state teams play each other.
Players pay their big AVF membership and get precious little for it.
A competition to decide the best state team is not too much to ask for these kids.
I have said this many times. We need more events.
Trying to jamb more into Schools Cup, Nat Juniors is not the way to go.
As a sport we must have more quality events to hang our hat on.
Create another event.
Invite USA and NZ and tops states and schools.
When we went to the NZ schools cup some years ago, they let us play in the medal round but we were not permitted to get medals.
We were thanked for comming behind the grandstand.
Every body has their way of doing things. We understood – there was no problem.
If you travel to USA, they will not permit you to compete in their nationals juniors.
They do have another division for international teams which is nice.
Giving the NZ ers 2 weeks notice re decision is very off though.
Troy M said
I think that Australian Junior Volleyball Championships should be a competition to identify the strongest state/territory in Australia for each division and think Australian teams should compete for their medal’s in the medal matches.
A separate event would be ideal, although it is probably not practical. I think it would be difficult to do it in a way that prevents two diluted competitions because the cost/time/energy/stress of two tournaments is too great and competitors may bias one tournament over the other for various reasons (for example if WA was hosting AJVC – and NSW was hosting this other tournament – you might find VIC, NSW, ACT, QLD leaning away from AJVC as it is cheaper to travel to Sydney). I think killing two birds with one stone in terms of travel costs as well as time investment for training would be better if done the right way.
In all fairness to AVF it would be difficult to integrate non-state/territory teams into the AJVC in a way that allows these teams to compete for something – when at the moment it is just NZ.
If it was possibly to get interest from other countries or regional teams (eg split NZ into north and south island), perhaps there could be two competitions running simultaneously with state vs state games counting towards an AJVC title and an Open title while matches against non-australian teams only counting towards the open title?
I think keeping it locked into the AJVC would be important for Australian Volleyball as a whole. It would obviously be a matter of securing long-term interest to make it actually work. I think in addition to trying to get interest from Pacific island nations (eg tonga, samoa, fiji), it would also be worth looking at South East Asia (eg indonesia, singapore, malaysia). Obviously things would need to be tidied up with this – eg when finals come around, would Australian teams compete for both AJVC and open title? I guess it would be necessary to work things out at that end. I am saving my brain for AJVC so I’m not going to break it hypothesising on something I have no control over – just a rough brainstorm :P
sooty said
this decision aligns with the preciosness of the australian volleyball fraternity…
unfortunately it again is small picture thinking instead of big picture thinking. you guys are more interested in beating each other up, than working together to make australia good at volleyball on the world stage.
i am personally dissappointed at this decision, one as it prevents a better level of tournament for the australian juniors to play in. two, after being part of SA volleyball for 5 years, the juniors champs is becoming a harder event for athelketes to participate in due to cost, opportunities etc and the fun at the event. the possibility of playing an international team or two on your own soil is second to none..
i will recommend nzl teams never vists again, and will also communicate this widely. a waste of time, for our teams, and considerable money. unfortunately it is too late to pull out. if we can get insurance we may still. After a few more years of isolation the australian national teams will get weaker and weaker.
its like the dropping of 2nd and 3rd teams from the championship. the only team australia has at the world beach championships is bechara palmer and heike jensen. if bechara dod not get the opportunity to play in th u17 b team as a 14 yr old, she might have not played volleyball, therefor australia would have no womens teams at any world championship.
i think this is even more likely now.
regards
a dissappointed sooty
Murph said
Sooty,
I would imagine that rather than putting in U17 C teams so that a 14 year old Becchara can play, we should have nothing but A teams in the AJVC and more, but different, competitions for people like her.
SA Fan said
The problems with this point are:
- that there currently aren’t “different competitions” so SA has simply robbed there own kids (possibly future Rep players as Sooty says) of a good opportunity to play in the best competition.
- & secondly the tournament is for the kids, they love the atmosphere and support that comes from the bigger event.
Troy M said
I don’t understand why on one hand you would say it is important to keep B teams in the tournament but then recommend NZ teams never come back again because they only get to play 5 days of volleyball, not 6?
I am sure the NZ teams are all well aware they are not competing for a medal, and they are coming to Australia for the opportunity to play some high level volleyball. I wouldn’t be telling them to not bother coming back because they only get to play for 5 days instead of 6 – I think they are capable of deciding for themselves if it is worth it.
Murph said
I think you’ll find Sooty would have a fair bit of clout with VNZ Troy, so if he is unamused with what is going on, one would assume their volleyball base would as well.
Troy M said
oh he is from VNZ?
I had visions of someone from VSA going up to all the new zealanders and telling them not to come back :P
Murph said
No…That’s my job!! Racial vilification for Volleyball South Australia.
Sooty used to be with VSA, but is a NZ through and through.
Alan said
The bottom line on this is simple.Timing is everything and given that the AVF would be aware of the Kiwis investment, both from a financial and resource perspective,they should have delayed changing the format until the 2010 Championship.Surely the AVF could eat some humble pie and rescind this decision today?
andy said
What is going on in volleyball in this country? its like we are all against each other. volleyball Australia needs to start thinking “outside the box”. Some silly decisions have been made, but we need to find ways to deal with what we have got. NZ should be eligable to play in a medal match, if they are good enough to get there then let them play. More events need to ocure I agree eldo, But there is no funding for athletes. I have represented my country, state, school, club, and AVL, and it isn’t cheap. Scouting needs to improove, and funding needs to find its way back into the program nationally. The only way things are going to get better is by our National Mens and Womans Teams making improovments to thier world rankings. Dramatic changes need to be made to the whole system. Things have been the same for years, and we need to change the culture of the sport in this country. Athletes every year look to go play and train overseas, because thier is no decent level here for them. The truth is that if you don’t make the AIS there isnt much left for you in Australia, Apart from AVL which is only a small part of the year. When are things going to change???
Player said
Word on the street is that some of the senior national team players offered to play a ‘show match’ at junior nationals….AUS vs AUS style…AVF wasnt interested….!!
Pretty sure almost every player at nationals would love to watch the best Australia has to offer….would it be so hard to organise??
Kris said
I don’t think it was AVF who weren’t interested but Volleyball Queensland who didn’t respond.
It would have been good to see.
Speaking of which…will there be any video put out of showing the medal matches?? maybe live streaming.
too late to organise?
Yankee Boy said
Sooty and Andy are 100% on the money. It’s really just that simple, whether we may agree or not we do not have a very progressive way of dealing with growing our sport. We are more concerned with the parochialism between states than we are with developing our players in the best way possible.
I know there is often quite vehement criticism of the inadequacies of the AVF on this forum and in this case (and pretty well all others) it is absolutely justified.
stan said
Just to clarify things, a little birdie told me that it was the states who made the decision not to let nz play in medal games, not the avf, as Morbo had suspected in an ealier post. This time avf was just the messenger. But don’t misunderstand me. I think avf have a lot to answer for.
And on the subject of not playing in medal games and only giving two weeks notice, I think that just sucks. What poor form that is. Why accept the nomination if you are not going to let a team fully participate in the whole tournament? If you let the team in then be prepared for them to play hard and if they win games and get to a final then they have obviously trained hard and deserve to be in the final. As for the states that have complained cos they got knocked out by a nz team, suck it up, stop your whingeing and train harder for next year.
Dissatisfied kiwi parent said
I happen to know first hand the level of energy, time and passion that all the kiwi athletes have put in to get where they are with their volleyball. To then be treated as second class citizens by AVF is appalling. Shame on you! I think you have seen the last of the NZers and how sad is that. I can’t see who wins here. This decision is ill conceived and petty.
edbinnie said
Time and Time again, we, the Australian volleyball public complain about how expensive it is to get good quality games, and that is the reason our sport suffers.
So here we are, our best youngsters are playing against the Kiwi national youth/junior teams. What could be better match practice? What could be more cost effective than have them come to us?
Who would U19 and U21 teams rather play? a Northern Territory or Tasmanian team that is fully of U15 so that they could get enough for a team? or THE NZ U19 or U21 team? Or would you rather play a 3rd string team from one of the states? or play the same team twice, then a third time in the medal match (think Women’s U21s 2007 – 4 state teams entered)
Surely it is in our best interest to have as many quality teams come to australia. what is this garbage about medals? a $5 piece of metal? we are worried about our kids missing out on one? really? why don’t we give everyone a participation one? Or is it a budget thing? we can’t afford the extra $80 per age group for extra medals?
Do we want a bigger playing pool, or smaller? Do we want better quality matches or worse?
Or do we just want to say that we are really good because we got a medal?