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2009/10 Australian Beach Volleyball Series
Posted by devo on November 23, 2009
Volleyball Australia has announced that is … working closely with our member state associations and their beach tour operators to deliver what will now be known as the Australian Beach Series, comprised of five State Open events and culminating in the National Beach Championships. This has replaced what many would know as the National Beach Tour. We are still working diligently to attract sponsorship dollars to assist in supporting each of these events as well as the National Championships.
The Australian Beach Series will be a mainstay for future summer beach seasons. Volleyball Australia continues to make efforts to build a ‘Pro Tour’ featuring a limited entry of Australia’s best beach volleyball players which will be used to highlight and promote the sport to the public through the use of television. We are not ready to announce this tour for 2010 but we are hopeful for 2011.
Get all the info, dates and links on the Volleyball Australia site.
Damian Natas said
Does the same diligence goes in to attracting sponsorship dollars for indoor? I reckon they have probably given up on getting $$ for indoor because it has been tried and marketing beach would be easier.
Its a shame that sponsorship dollars are more likely to be drawn by the perversion of the game that is beach. The coporate folk who are more likely to care about their exposure (rather than the quality of what they are sponsoring) realise that the uneducated general public are more attracted to watching people winning the majority of their points with tips while wearing skimpy clothing. In contrast, seeing athletes running combos, flying through the air, and pulverising the ball at little people in contrasting jerseys who are actually capable of passing a hard driven hit is not attracting people.
Priorities for leaders around the world should be: global peace, eradicating poverty and getting the world to see that indoor totally destroys beach as a sport (and not necessarily in that order)
Al said
Oh my goodness. Can a person be any less informed than you Damian?
The beach form of our sport in Australia is something we should all be proud of. I believe without it volleyball as a whole would not be where it is today.
Our beach athletes are some of the greatest sports people this country has produced and you belittle them with your comments above. Come on now!
I follow both forms of volleyball and hope they can both continue to grow in the future but without Beach Volleyball continuing to win medals on a world stage, elite programs for both sports will be in jeopardy.
Disagree said
While I disagree with much of what you wrote Damian, I’m actually glad you wrote it. Most people who share your point of view don’t actually ever say it.
Damian Natas said
Oh my goodness, yes, many people can be less informed than me “Al”. But I have already gone off topic by going into a beach marketability vs indoor marketability discussion and elaborating on the many people who are less informed than me will deviate from my original diversion, that being does the AVF go to the same efforts to secure sponsorship $$$ for indoor, or do they just put it in the too hard basket when compared to the effort they need to put in for beach (not having a shot at AVF – just trying to clarify what is happening regarding sponsorship).
Now I appreciate that my opinion on beach may not be shared, and I will confess, every now and then I will head down to the beach and have a hit. But as a sport, I could never take beach as seriously as indoor.
My next point was that I find it difficult to comprehend how someone who has no idea about indoor or beach will prefer to watch beach (well thats the vibe I get – everytime you tell someone you play volleyball they go on for 10-15 mins about how great beach vball is and I try and deal with the distaste in my mouth from the vomit i just swallowed).
I am not trying to start a discussion on why indoor is better, because it is not necessary. Being as impartial as possible, beach does not have the same standard of blocking (if they have any block at all), the attack is not as intense, intricate or diverse (a roll shot to where the back court player is not standing vs combinations and quick attacks), and the passing is not as spectacular because the beach players are generally covering slow shots into the gaps whereas indoor players are wearing hits that are HARD.
Again, trying to be impartial here, watching beach volleyball is about as spectacular as a game of highschool style handball (not european handball) – it is just about people placing the ball into the gaps. As a society are we that superficial that if we had grown women playing highschool style handball in bikinis, that the skimpy clothes on the girls would be sufficient to sell the game? Indoor shouldn’t have to rely on using ‘sex’ to sell itself, and I think it comes across as more classy due to the fact that it doesn’t.
With current funding, I concur on the point that without beach volleyball, indoor would not get the funding. Indoor is riding on the money coat tails of a couple of beach volleyball medals and has been doing so for a while now. But I would also suggest mens beach volleyball has been resting on the laurels of womens beach volleyball. For me – its like a business relationship with someone dodgy, once you get yourself set-up you try and distance yourself from them ASAP because you really dont want to be associated with them. I would love to see indoor get itself set up and be in a position to cut its ties with beach. In the mean time I guess leech until we are in the position to go our own way.
On performances, I really think VTAM have done a better job than our beach men/women have in the last 5 years and I think its a shame that because we can’t achieve the same rankings in the big pond (men’s indoor) as we had in the past in the little pond (beach) that the powers to be dont look at it with consideration towards the size of the two sports.
Indoor Volleyball is one of the biggest sports in the world and what VTAM has achieved in the last 10 years has been understated because people are too busy looking at rankings rather than proportional achievements.
Ideally, indoor would attract its own fans and not need to steal them from beach, but as indoor has so much more to offer, it would seem logical that beach fans would become attracted to indoor if they could see how much better it was.
Perhaps it is just a time thing. I recall 20 years ago hardly any Australians were playing club soccer in any substantive European leagues, and what started as a slow trickle of players to lower divisions and lower ranked teams has increased exponentially and has seen players starting in top club teams and subsequently the standard of our national team has increased considerably. With more and more indoor people making it to Europe/North America, perhaps in 10-15 years we will see our depth of talent increase in the same way that has been seen in our national soccer team, and with that depth, hopefully results will come, and with those results, hopefully the $$$ will follow.
Troy M said
long post… interesting last point… would be good if the VTAM/VTAW was able to replicate the performance of the mens soccer team and I agree that there is a lack of support in the general media for VTAM.
Going through it all I think your main point is that indoor needs to somehow make itself more marketable. Admittedly, I think its a bit over the top to imply beach is like a “business relationship with someone dodgy” and that indoor needs to ‘cut its ties with the beach’. I don’t see the need to drive a wedge between the two sports. I think it would be better if the two sports were working together to lure fans from other sports rather than from each other… I wonder if it would be possible to host a combined beach/indoor event? Recalling last year’s AVL rounds, I’m sure that the mighty Mount Lofty would be a fantastic venue for a combined AVL/Beach event (not sure if Australian Beach Series would consider playing at Lofty because from my vague recollection they might not have enough courts for the beach side of things?) but I would love it if somehow we could combine the two. Would be nice if both sports could be competing at the same venue because you would attract both crowds, and both crowds would have the opportunity to experience both games :)
Al said
You make some interesting points “Damian” and I’m sure we could find some common ground in our discussion, but I can’t bring myself to have a conversation with someone who has so little idea about how beach volleyball is played at an elite level and is not afraid to highlight it.
Disagree said
ok Damian, here goes….
No arguments with what you prefer. People are allowed to prefer whatever they want. That’s why I like living in Australia. A friend of mine prefers to support Richmond – that doesn’t make him wrong (ok, bad example). On the other hand, the right you have to your opinion suggests that others aren’t necessarily ‘wrong’ if they don’t agree, just have a different opinion.
Having said that, I think its worth pointing out a couple of things where your argument is inaccurate. None of these things change the fact that you prefer indoor Volleyball, just some little ‘inaccuracies’:
“why indoor is better” – there are many examples of ‘better players’ who have medalled in Olympics with indoor teams not succeeding at beach volleyball. This suggests that its not a question of ‘better’, but of different. Having said that, the pool of indoor talent is certainly deeper.
“mens beach volleyball has been resting on the laurels of womens beach volleyball” – by any assessment this is not true of the past Olympics cycle. The men got a Bronze medal at World Champs, had multiple podium finishes, had winning records against 2 of the top 4 teams in the world and were ranked as high as 6 in the world at one point. And the thing is, even this was only just better than the women’s performances!
“VTAM have done a better job than our beach men/women have in the last 5 years” – This is perhaps a little unfair on the beach volleyball athletes. A Bronze medal is a pretty big deal. Consistently winning matches at the highest level against the top teams in the world is a pretty big deal. I think if you had made the argument that VTAM had done better in the 5 years from 1997 to 2001 you might actually have had a better argument! Then there’s the little matter of a World Youth Champs Gold Medal.
In the end, you will probably think my points are still just ‘opinions’ but personally I think they are facts. If we agree to differ then that’s fine with me.
Damian Natas said
Thats fair enough :)
I think winning an Asian Championship in indoor (2007) is a pretty big deal and I think that was something that was massively underrepresented in the media.
I never said indoor athletes are better from a physiological perspective because it is too difficult to have a definitive measure between the two. You might have one huge guy and one tiny guy – one is a better athlete as a weight lifter, the other superior as a gymnast. Beach athletes at the top level are very good at what they do and the transition for an indoor player to the beach is not something that can be done with ease and not something that can be done by everyone. The comparison I was making was that I think it is difficult to dispute that indoor has better blocks, better hits, better passes, better serves and more surprises and I find it disturbing that for some reason beach gets all the media attention.
Yes sour grapes. Indoor is better (okay to make it less opinionated – indoor has better blocks, better hits, better passes, better serves and more surprises) and therefore should be drawing the media attention.
I appreciate your comments ‘disagree’ and I appreciate the way you have presented them :) thanks!
Fan of Yaegan said
Some interesting Points “Damian” and I agree Indoor is better that beach!
Yaegan Doran plays indoor…enough said
Interesting last name you have Damian – from somewhere HOT are you???
Damian Natas said
I just feel indoor shouldn’t be relying on its weaker little sibling to survive. Especially when it is much better looking.
I am not sure who this Eugene Doran character is, but if the posts that pop up every now and then about his looks are to be trusted, he sounds like the perfect poster boy for men’s volleyball.
With the women wearing skimpy clothes attracting male fans to beach, maybe Eugene Doran in skimpy clothes (obviously off the court attire/posters/merchandise) could attract female fans to indoor?
My last name is Greek “fan of yaegan”, no jokes about hectik doof doof and fully sik rims – I grew up in Cairns so was deprived of the glorious opportunity to learn how to be one of the bros and do laps of chaps.
Fan of Yaegan said
Ah of course – the Cairns based, Greek Natas’s. My apologies, pictured you growing up somewhere much hotter.
I understand that Yaegan also has a rather large “male” following. Win – Win for indoor
edbinnie said
In terms of results, for my mind its pretty simple.
Every year, every few weeks, the beach teams go at it against the best in the world.
Every 4 year Olympic Cycle, VTAM only have a couple of tournaments that matter.
In beach, the best of the best in Australia (you know, those that qualify for the olympics, win medals at international tournaments etc) are on show in Australia on the beach tours, both National and State. And we have no problem getting some good level international competitors to come along to our tours.
The same can’t be said for VTAM. At this year’s asians, we didn’t even have all top players available (not having a dig at the AVF, VTAM or the athletes here – its a scheduling issue with AVC and FIVB) so it wasn’t even the same faces that dominated at Asians in 2007.
So when do we see the full VTAM again? At World Champs in 2010. Then after that? at Olympic Qualifying in 2011. There may even be 3 or 4 tournaments in 2011. But really, that’s not a lot of time nor many events for them to get the attention they deserve.
Unfortunately I just don’t think you can compare the internal exposure between the two sports (and they are different sports – its like comparing baseball to cricket, or American Football to Rugby League). And without that exposure, you can’t begin to compare sponsorship.
Josh said
So much that could be said, but let’s focus on one of your key gripes Damian. Whether indoor is supposedly “better” or not is down to an individuals opinion. I, like many on this forum enjoy both for what they are, completely different sports employing similar skill sets and both providing a spectacle for the audience (oh and that’s from a skill point of view not the bikini’s as you seem to so focused on).
With respect to sponsorship dollars the two are incomparable. The “product” is only a tiny element of the overall picture. You may think it’s the bikini’s the sponsors are jumping on board with (and I’m sure there are some that do) but you’ve got the blinkers on if you think that’s it.
Let’s compare the last time there was a real ridgy-didge international indoor volleyball match played in Australia – November 2006. 1500 (some optimists counted it at 2000) people turned up to see the Aussies play Argentina. Now let’s compare that with your average national beach volleyball (or even state beach volleyball) event. The estimated walk-up/by traffic at Manly is around the 30,000 mark in a single weekend (and may even be more). If you were a sponsor looking to invest your hard-earned which would you choose? Then there’s the TV connection…. beach on Channel 10, indoor (admittedly AVL) on SBS.
If you asked most prospective sponsors about indoor volleyball you’d likely get one of three responses – “does it even exist in Australia” OR “they have that at the Olympics right?” OR “oh yeah I played that when I was in high school”. That is the sad reality of the current sporting landscape in Australia when talking with the majority of sporting fans.
As Ed said, as much as you can’t compare the overall success of the two sports you also can’t compare the potential sponsorship dollars because, while you and I and hundreds of visitor’s to Devo’s agree the sport has marketability from an athletic perspective, it’s not a view shared by the majority of Australians.
And the situation is not helped by the delusion that the internet will somehow attract new fans and players to the sport. I suspect that’s a view shared by the cash and resource strapped AVF too!
Enough!
Damian Natas said
Indoor as a game has better hitting, passing, blocking and seving and the attack is less predictable – no one has disputed that yet. Having more people on court and playing on a more rigid surface facilitates this. As a game with these attributes my concern is that sponsorship is so difficult to attract in relation to beach.
I do not claim that sponsors sponsor beach for the bikinis. I claim that bikinis draw spectators and sponsors follow the spectators (which is totally justifiable). I’m not blaming the sponsors, just confused as to why Beach is getting all the spectators, and I think you have a good point in that it is more accessible. People who are at the beach anyway are likely to stop and watch for a bit. The only people are at indoor are people who are specifically there for indoor. Occasionally you will have basketball people playing in the same venue and they will wander past, but they are more interested in watching basketball (another sport that has nothing on indoor)
Just on the skimpy outfits, I would be curious to compare the TV ratings between say a day of mens beach vball and a day of womens beach vball on similar channels at similar times. I would also be curious to see how much money men beach volleyballers make in comparison to women beach volleyballers from sponsorship. With the people wandering along the beach, its okay to stand there for 5 mins staring at the girls in their bikinis if they are playing beach, but its not okay to stare if they are just sunbaking, so its pretty much an excuse for ppl to have a perve (ie I think the amount of skin being shown is contributing to some extent to the number of people who will stop and watch).
As I said, you have made some great points, and I hate that I am not able to propose some solutions to the problem (ie lack of spectators), but I think making indoor as accessible as beach would definitely be a step in the right direction.
Karl said
“Indoor as a game has better hitting, passing, blocking and seving and the attack is less predictable – no one has disputed that yet.”
I think the main reason why this hasn’t been disputed is because it comes down to opinion. Personally, I prefer indoor too, but then I’d put rugby league ahead of indoor and I’m sure you can find millions of people that disagree with you (and I hope everyone that is on here) and put basketball above volleyball. To say that something is better, you need to define what you mean by better. Yes, there is more variety in the combination of attacks that are coming at you in indoor (with only two people on the court, variety in this aspect is a bit hard to produce…), but in beach there is more variety in the attack that is coming from an individual, which in turn makes blocking and playing defence harder. The ball is generally hit harder in indoor, but there is more reward for cut/roll shots on the beach, so to simply blast away would be inefficient. If this is the reason why it’s better, then it must be logical that Twenty20 is better than test cricket because there are more 6′s and drag racing is better than formula one because they go faster…
This isn’t really direct criticism, more of a challenge to look at the sports in a different way. As has been said quite often of late, both have their advantages, so working together for the betterment of the sport has to be more productive than saying, “we’re better, why do they get all of the money?”.
As for increasing the exposure of indoor to get it into the mainstream in Australia, if anyone can figure that one out you’ve done better than most in the past few decades…
Damian Natas said
i see where you are coming from but the examples are a bit different. Drag racing is different to F1, yes drag racing is faster, but F1 offers corners, so the handling and balance of the car is relatively more important, multiple cars are there, so there is overtaking (well technically their should be – fingers crossed for Kobayashi getting a drive in a decent car next year), and it is considerably longer, so like comparing 100m sprint to the marathon. So while Drag Racing offers raw speed, F1 offers other aspects such as team strategy, configuration (ie balance for cornering or speed), overtaking etc.
Twenty20 vs test cricket is basically same game only wickets are less valuable due to the time constraints so people are more gung ho. So in the same way Twenty20 is comparable to the 100m sprint where ‘power’ (used very loosely and vaguely here) is key and test cricket is like the marathon where strategy and endurance are the priority.
I know there are millions of people whos #1 love is basketball. I am not going into a vball vs bball debate because it is too subjective to have a meaningfully debate over.
indoor vs beach can be compared a little more objectively I think due to the fact both games are very similar. I don’t really want to elaborate anymore on my comment “Indoor as a game has better hitting, passing, blocking and seving and the attack is less predictable – no one has disputed that yet.” I still have not seen someone dispute that statement with any justification, so I stand by those comments and don’t think I need to elaborate on them unless someone specifically asks me to. I think by the very nature of beach (only 2 players, proportionally more court coverage required, difficulty of moving on sand) it cannot compete with indoor in those areas.
As for power vs cut/roll shots. Some people prefer the latter. Spectators of lawn bowls, curling, etc would all appreciate the importance of precision placement with power being of considerably less concern. I get the impression though that more people enjoy seeing displays of power and strategy. I think this is generally (not always) reflected in sport, with an exception to that trend being indoor volleyball in Australia.
I think it is important to identify what beach is bringing to the table that indoor isn’t (in some contrast to the impression my initial comments may have conveyed, not for the reason of trumping beach, but to learn and develop indoor so that it becomes more marketable). Due to the fact that both games are similar, although I believe indoor offers more, there needs to be discussion to identify how indoor can be elevated to a position that is better representative of what the game has to offer.
Finally in regards to the “we’re better, why do they get all the money?” sort of angle that I had initially taken, yes it is fair enough to challenge me on this, but it was not an angle taken out of laziness. I simply was having trouble rationalising why the beach product which in my opinion does not offer as much as the indoor product was enjoying superior marketability. I however have enjoyed the discussion so far, and appreciate everyones contributions, I think it has been useful and hopefully more people will continue to put forward their ideas as to how indoor can achieve greater recognition outside of the people who are directly involved (ie players, coaches, administrators, family)
Damian Natas said
Sorry, to elaborate on my first few paragraphs, I don’t think beach adds any aspects to the game to make it better. So while F1 may not be as fast as drag racing, it offers corners and is a longer, more strategic event.
Beach offers less players covering more area on a court that is more difficult to move on. I think these aspects all make the game less exciting. If some people prefer the slower cut/roll shots thats fine, but I think most people would rather seeing big hits and the spectacular passes that follow.
Robo said
Agreed on the fact that this has generated some interesting discussion and hopefully it continues. Personally i have played both indoor and beach (neither really at a high level)and i have enjoyed playing both, and both have their pros and cons, but the main question for your argument Damian, is “What classifies ‘better’?”
Although F1 offers cornering and passing other cars etc, who decides that that is “better” than Drag racing? Does the fact that F1 has more corners make it “better” than NASCARS going round and round and round and round? The masses of certain “rouge-necked” people from the southern states of the US might disagree with you ;) but hey it’s a bloody popular sport over there
edbinnie said
I’m a die hard indoor player and fan, although i do love my time on the beach (well, except for the sand, the sun, the wind, and how exhausted you get playing the game).
They just aren’t the same game, no matter how you look at it.
There is just as much strategy, and probably greater skill on the beach. You may say its less exciting – but did you ever see Schacht/Slack in Action.
Schacht’s defense, and “superman” plays are one of the more exciting aspects of the game. Yeah the offense from the other side may be slower, but if it allows this sort of spectacular “wow” factor, then that’s got to be better than the blink and you miss the rally that is part of the elite indoor game.
And when possible, watching them combine for jump set “A” or “B” quick style attacks adds a lot more flavour to transition offense than the “throw it outside” of indoor.
Not to mention, watching the gruelling drama of athletes battling it out in intense humidity and temperature – watching the heartache as one player breaks while another finds that final burst of energy.
Beach volleyball allows a lot more of the personal drama than indoor does. Its the marathon (despite being shorter) of the two.
I’ll always choose to play indoor over beach, but you ask where do I want to spend a day – on the beach watching the national tour, or in a gym watching AVL, the Beach gets my vote every time.
Josh said
Ok, this perhaps isn’t ideal but perhaps the indoor side of the game needs to combine itself with another sport to create a festival – which would bring in spectators and sponsors. Beach has done this 1000 times over…. remember One Summer around Australia combining Triathlon, Beach Volleyball and I think maybe Ironman. Either way it attracted thousands of people to the beach. Some Triathlon fans saw beach for the first time and visa-versa.
You should have seen the looks on the little basketball kids faces at the Victorian State Volleyball Centre when it first opened. It opened their eyes to a sport they’d never seen before.
Perhaps… and this is a little out there…. look at some sort of festival that contains street basketball and “street” volleyball…. 6 a side on a suitable playing surface but played outdoors? Ok it might look like a PR stunt initially but who knows. As much as there are millions of basketball fans around the world… how many venture to watch the NBL? There is zero walk-by traffic….
Anyway just throwing some ideas around.
Damian Natas said
Sounds like an awesome idea! would love to see state/national body organise a park vball day/week in the CBD and get people playing some lunchtime vball :)
Josh said
Now you’re talking! Now to get the AVF or state bodies to try something like this.
bekhechi said
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11. rue Zerrouki Abdelkrim Tlemcen Algérie
A
Monsieur le Président
-Etant un entraineur professionnel et d’une grande expérience internationale, expert en méthodologie et technique d’entrainement en volley Ball ; je souhaite exercer une fonction (entraineur ou coordinateur technique) au sein de votre structure de volley Ball
-Entraineur de l’équipe nationale Algérienne (20ans, jusqu’en 2007) et de la sélection d’Afrique du nord de volley Ball
-Communicant lors des séminaires internationaux(le microcycle à charge psychique, prioriser l’efficacité)
-Professeur de volley Ball à l’institut des technologies des sports. Oran.
-Diplôme de la DHFK.LEIPZIG.ALLEMAGNE.(entraineur de volley Ball de haut niveau)
-Diplôme d’études supérieures (option volley Ball)
-Auteur du microcycle à charge psychique, une nouveauté méthodologique en volley Ball.
-Président du collège méthodologique de la Fédération Algérienne de volley Ball
-Plusieurs victoires sur les équipes nationales de : EGYPTE.FRANCE A ‘. TAIPEH.TUNISIE.BULGARIE. GRECE.TURQUIE. ALBANIE.etc
-Participation au championnat du monde 2000 à KAWAZAKI.JAPON.
-Plusieurs championnats d’Afrique des Nations
-Plusieurs tournois internationaux (dans 30 pays)
-Ai formé plusieurs joueurs de haut niveau
-Longue collaboration avec des entraineurs ayant participé à des compétitions Mondiales. (Jeux Olympiques, Championnats du Monde et Ligues Mondiales.)
Je parle français et allemand et un peu anglais.
De plus amples renseignements concernant mon CV, ainsi que mes titres et diplômes vous seront transmis, si vous le souhaitez.
Je me ferais un plaisir de répondre à votre future demande de vous envoyer mon étude sur le microcycle à charge psychique qui ferait l’objet d’échange et d’approfondissement de réflexion
.
Avec mes sentiments les plus respectueux
mickmurphy said
3 Grand Prize Money for the SA Open to be held at Glenelg Beach this year…
Already some quality teams have entered, should be a sweet event!!